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Author Topic: Explain induction recording  (Read 46922 times)

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SamH

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2016, 05:34:12 AM »

Well what type of recorder should I use? I'm all new to these things so I honestly have no idea what to do haha.
So I buy the one of the telephone pickups, and then a recorder then?
How much money are you willing to spend?  It's the usual tradeoff with audio gear: spending more money gets you better electronics inside the gear and so you get better quality recordings.  If you want to spend the minimum amount of money, you need to know the minimum quality of audio that is acceptable to you.

You now have 3 weeks before you go to WDW.  Unless you can find a retail store to buy a recorder and a telephone pickup, you'll have to buy them online and wait for delivery.  Then you have to learn how to use the recorder to make decent quality recordings, whether using a normal audio mic or the induction mic.  That's a lot of work to do in 3 weeks. 8)
Well my limit is over $100 but I would prefer if it were $30 and lower if possible. My ideal quality isn't so high that it sounds like it was the source audio- Just something good enough to listen to the song with limited background noises/clearer music.
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pixelated

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2016, 09:09:01 AM »

If you want to make induction recordings, you'll need a recorder that has a good enough preamp to boost the signal from the pickup to a usable level for the recorder's electronics.

Digital voice recorders cost $20-60 and are meant for audio notes/dictation, recording lectures & interviews, etc.  They work with external condenser mics by supplying a small voltage to a preamp that is built into the condenser mic.  Induction pickup don't have that internal preamp so they may or may not produce a strong enough signal to produce a good recording with a digital voice recorder.  You may ask "Can't you just turn up the volume if the signal is weak?"  Yes, increasing the gain will boost the signal level but it will also boost any inherent noise in the recording from the recorder's electronics as well.  What you want is a good high signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) and not just a louder recording.

Digital PCM audio recorders are anywhere from $100-$1000 and are targeted at audio professionals like musicians, recording engineers, etc.  The preamps in these types of recorders usually have enough gain to work with induction pickups.


Just something good enough to listen to the song with limited background noises/clearer music.
Unfortunately that is very subjective.  Also, "limited noise" and "clearer music" compared to...?  What are you using as a basis of comparison?

If you have music format conversion software on a computer, try picking some favorite tunes in various styles of music and converting them to a series of MP3s with progressively lower bitrates.  E.g., 320 -> 256 -> 192 -> 128 -> 64 -> 32 kbps.  Listen to the converted tracks and try to find out where the decrease in bitrate really does bother you.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 09:22:24 AM by pixelated »
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SamH

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2016, 05:24:18 AM »

If you want to make induction recordings, you'll need a recorder that has a good enough preamp to boost the signal from the pickup to a usable level for the recorder's electronics.

Digital voice recorders cost $20-60 and are meant for audio notes/dictation, recording lectures & interviews, etc.  They work with external condenser mics by supplying a small voltage to a preamp that is built into the condenser mic.  Induction pickup don't have that internal preamp so they may or may not produce a strong enough signal to produce a good recording with a digital voice recorder.  You may ask "Can't you just turn up the volume if the signal is weak?"  Yes, increasing the gain will boost the signal level but it will also boost any inherent noise in the recording from the recorder's electronics as well.  What you want is a good high signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) and not just a louder recording.

Digital PCM audio recorders are anywhere from $100-$1000 and are targeted at audio professionals like musicians, recording engineers, etc.  The preamps in these types of recorders usually have enough gain to work with induction pickups.


Just something good enough to listen to the song with limited background noises/clearer music.
Unfortunately that is very subjective.  Also, "limited noise" and "clearer music" compared to...?  What are you using as a basis of comparison?

If you have music format conversion software on a computer, try picking some favorite tunes in various styles of music and converting them to a series of MP3s with progressively lower bitrates.  E.g., 320 -> 256 -> 192 -> 128 -> 64 -> 32 kbps.  Listen to the converted tracks and try to find out where the decrease in bitrate really does bother you.
Yeah I looked into PCM before and it was way too expensive for me. A Digital Voice Recorder would probably do best in this case.
And when I meant by limited noise I meant something something like limited ambiance background noise if that clears it up? Like  near or close to this type of quality; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpHHBBSfJkg Sorry for the confusion.
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pixelated

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2016, 09:08:38 AM »

Yeah I looked into PCM before and it was way too expensive for me. A Digital Voice Recorder would probably do best in this case.
Did you look at the TASCAM DR-05?.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DR05?product_id=DR05
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Gringrinnyghost

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2016, 09:54:30 AM »

Yeah I looked into PCM before and it was way too expensive for me. A Digital Voice Recorder would probably do best in this case.
Did you look at the TASCAM DR-05?.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DR05?product_id=DR05

I second the TASCAM DR-05. I have done and posted a few inductions from that recorder with an external telephone pickup
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pixelated

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2016, 11:36:37 AM »

Like  near or close to this type of quality; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpHHBBSfJkg
That YouTube video has a good quality induction recording.  If you're very lucky, you'll plop the induction pickup on a speaker and your induction recording will be that good.

Otherwise, you'll have to learn at a minimum:
- which speaker to use if more than one are playing the audio you want
- where to put the pickup on the speaker
- how to keep the pickup from moving because that causes audible glitches or shifts in volume and/or tone
- how to not look suspicious while doing all of the above 8)

And then there is the post-processing of your recordings but that can wait until you get home.
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SamH

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2016, 03:57:38 PM »

Like  near or close to this type of quality; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpHHBBSfJkg
That YouTube video has a good quality induction recording.  If you're very lucky, you'll plop the induction pickup on a speaker and your induction recording will be that good.

Otherwise, you'll have to learn at a minimum:
- which speaker to use if more than one are playing the audio you want
- where to put the pickup on the speaker
- how to keep the pickup from moving because that causes audible glitches or shifts in volume and/or tone
- how to not look suspicious while doing all of the above 8)

And then there is the post-processing of your recordings but that can wait until you get home.
Oh believe me there are many speakers throughout the area, I know many ways to access it without sticking out (I hope).
And yeah I did check that out but I would prefer if there would be a cheaper device ? If possible. And say I did buy this or something very similar; How might this appear on the X Ray machine for the airport/WDW? (I think WDW already has these or I'm confusing them with UOR?).
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eyore

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2016, 09:50:32 PM »

Nobody has ever queried it for me nor any of the electrical stuff I've taken either through customs security no the hotels nor park security. My recorder is in a small camera bag with a spare induction mic, earphones,SD cards and spare batteries. I also carry a minidisc recorder, an iPod and two mp3 players.,  I suppose it depends on what they are looking for. This is flying from the UK to DLRP when France was on high alert. Airport security sometimes ask if I have any electrical equipment or computers but have never asked to look at them.
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pixelated

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2016, 11:49:22 PM »

I also have not had any problems taking my various electronic devices through security.  I think as long as the X-ray scanner operator can clearly see each device, you shouldn't have any problems.  I.e., don't jam them together.

The TASCAM is one of the cheaper PCM recorders.  As I said in an earlier post, using an induction pickup with a digital voice recorder may not work because the signal level is too low to give you a usable recording.  You won't know until you actually try it.  If the signal is indeed too low, then you have to buy another recorder and hopefully be able to return the original recorder.
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SamH

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2016, 01:40:04 AM »

I also have not had any problems taking my various electronic devices through security.  I think as long as the X-ray scanner operator can clearly see each device, you shouldn't have any problems.  I.e., don't jam them together.

The TASCAM is one of the cheaper PCM recorders.  As I said in an earlier post, using an induction pickup with a digital voice recorder may not work because the signal level is too low to give you a usable recording.  You won't know until you actually try it.  If the signal is indeed too low, then you have to buy another recorder and hopefully be able to return the original recorder.
Alright, I'll see what I can do.
Thank you for your help!  ;D
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pixelated

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2016, 05:43:54 AM »

Alright, I'll see what I can do.
Thank you for your help!  ;D
You are very welcome!  Enjoy your trip and good luck!
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Doddles

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2021, 07:24:02 PM »

I know this thread is old but I've found it interesting. After reading all of the advice and caveats, not sure if it's worth the effort, but if someone were starting to dabble with an entry-level digital recorder and telephone pickup in 2021, what would the preferred recorder brand be--Zoom, Tascam, or something else entirely?
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IHeartGaming

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2021, 08:39:46 PM »

I know this thread is old but I've found it interesting. After reading all of the advice and caveats, not sure if it's worth the effort, but if someone were starting to dabble with an entry-level digital recorder and telephone pickup in 2021, what would the preferred recorder brand be--Zoom, Tascam, or something else entirely?

I bought a Sony PCM-D50 on pixelated's recommendation. Its preamp is supposed to be better than the ones used by Zoom and Tascam. I made a few test induction recordings from a speaker here at home, and they turned out quite nicely.
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disneydon

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2021, 05:08:48 AM »

Back in the early 70's I used to make induction recordings using a suction cup microphone recording device for old telephones I got from Radio Shack and a cassette recorder. We had no special name for it. But it was magic!
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ebbelein

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Re: Explain induction recording
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2021, 08:04:34 AM »

Ahhh, feel right at home here... No holiday trip is complete without some nice suction cups!
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