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WDITrent

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Comparing HD Cameras
« on: December 29, 2008, 06:03:09 PM »

Hey everyone-

I'm thinking about purchasing a new HD camera to replace my low-quality JVC camcorder. The cameras I'm looking at are outlet cameras, being sold initially for about $1,4000 and now being sold for $800. To me, that seems like a really good deal. However, I am not very educated about HD cameras, so I want some advice- Is it worth buying something like this? I'm going to try to post a link to a page about the camera I'm talking about.
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darthvader92

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 06:16:26 PM »

My parents for christmas bought me a Hitachi Blu-ray HD HDD Camcorder. I found out that it has a very low quality like VHS quality. I emailed hitachi and they said in some words, you want better quality then you'll have to go outside. As soon as they said that I was like forget and we are now selling it on amazon for $699. Hopefully we'll be able to pay off the new camcorder that we ordered which is the Sony HDR-SR10. I have tested this camcorder and LOVE IT. Actually amazon has this camcorder brand new for about $500!!! I don't know if it is still like that since we bought it but it is a VERY good deal for an excellent camcorder.
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JPWDW

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 06:34:29 PM »

I have a the serie of what you got darthvader92... I have a HDR-SR10 and all I say its that that is a great camera when there is high levels of light, but when you use it at night, you will see lots of balck dots in the video. Anyway, its a great option for someone that is using is in good light conditions.
Now Im looking foward that HVR-a1u that its a good one in low light conditions too (but this one costs arround $2600).  :-X :D
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marni1971

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 07:09:01 PM »

I`m in this too. I`m looking at the new Panasonic HDC-SD100 and educating myself as I go. Like most things you get what you pay for. I learnt that when I shot a wedding with 2 DV cams - one was my nice 3 chip one, one a cheap model. The difference was like chalk and cheese. Here`s some personal pointers:

For dark shots you want a nice big chip, be it CCD or CMOS. 3 chip cameras sacrifice the ammount of light that can fall on each chip since they are physcially smaller to fit inside a consumer model. Having said that, I`m aiming for a 3 chip model since a) good processing to improve low light has come on leaps and bounds and b) in half decent light 3 chip models are better than a single chip model.

I`m also going for CMOS instead of CCD since now there is hardly any difference in quality (finally) - and CMOS dosn`t give the telltale vertical stripe you get with bright points of light (eg fireworks)

This model records to SD card. I don`t like the thought of (ab)using a hard drive in the parks, at the risk of loosing many days footage. Plus having to spend more to backup/empty it whilst on a trip. As darthvader mentioned, compression shows up the most when you have a plain, dark screen or heavy contrasting objects moving quickly. What I`m still looking into in how much HD per gig I can get; this model uses the newer AVCHD format - compressed HD which is uncompressed before using. With the price of SD cards falling and the same pros as using tape but with non of the cons I`m almost convinced.

Finally, how good is the artificial intelligence? How good can it focus, adjust to lights levels, hold detail against sudden changes in light? How easy is it to use the manual settings? Personally I`ve had to factor in manual focus ring, external mic input and hotshoe, viewfinder as well as screen, optical not digital stabiliser....

Finally, avoid digital zoom like the plague and don`t worry about anything above 30 frames a second since domestic TVs can`t show anything above 29.97fps (NTSC) or 25fps (PAL).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 07:11:37 PM by marni1971 »
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dajatje

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 08:05:15 PM »

I am using a Sony HDR-HC5 1080i camcorder. It wasn't the cheapest of the bunch, but not very expensive at the time I bought it. It is a HDV miniDV camera. I will list some things I like and some things I don't like:

I like the following:
It performs ok in low light conditions
It has a fireworks preset that works great (no focus and lighting issues, maybe you can find my footage in Martin's Holiday Wishes tribute)
It has a spotlight preset which works nice when taping stage shows (I needed to change lighting settings by hand on my old camera, otherwise faces were just white spots)
It has a CMOS chip
Carl Zeiss lens
Sony battery capabilities are nice
Tape instead of harddrive (SD wasn't a real option 2 years ago)

I don't like the following:
Touchscreen only (no scroll button, HC7 does have that), but not a real issue
No external mic input (it does have some kind of hotshoe which I did not look into)
Audio auto gain was better on my old cam
No frame rate settings (to prevent flicker on certain preshows ;-), although I was able to tape One Man's Dream almost flicker free)
Steadyshot acts up sometimes with closeups.

I am still planning on releasing some of my footage.

Cheers,
Dajatje
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marni1971

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 08:18:00 PM »

As Daja says, his camera is a great little model. I can vouch for the quality of his day and night footage. Sadly, HD DV is almost non existant at consumer level now; I`d be looking at 15% more in cost at least for a comparable model that uses tape.
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kirky

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 09:03:02 PM »

As Daja says, his camera is a great little model. I can vouch for the quality of his day and night footage. Sadly, HD DV is almost non existant at consumer level now; I`d be looking at 15% more in cost at least for a comparable model that uses tape.
HD DV is one of the reasons I went with my Canon HV30, the ability to use tape.  From what I understand, while the HD DV codec is somewhat more limited than the AVCHD codec, I still prefer the ability to "archive" my footage on tape.  Also the ability to quickly load a new tape in the machine and continue instead of offloading the footage is really a bonus.

If I understood the process correctly, with AVCHD you need to copy and then convert the footage into something usable, vs just a capture with HD DV.

I can't wait to get some vacation footage and start editing it for real.  I don't think I'll be disappointed though..
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TheWorm

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 09:27:05 PM »

I love my Canon HF-100. It's a flash based camcorder that uses h264 encoding at 17mbps(the HDV/DVC/etc equivalent of 34mbps theoretically). It's the exact same as the Canon HF-10 except doesn't come with the internal 8gb card so you just buy your own which is a lot cheaper than the couple hundred dollars in price difference.. No one's quite sure why they priced them like that heh. It's since been replaced by the HF-11 which is the exact same but goes up to 25mbps which is apparently the limit that h264 can go to for this purpose(and again that's the equivalent of 50mbps on HDV/DVC/etc).

It has full manual controls for the most part and they're easily accessible compared to most consumer cameras but not as on-the-fly manipulative as a prosumer camera would be. Only criticism is that it's so small and light(which is a good thing) because it doesn't use tape and have a tape player inside so it can be a challenge to hold steady when shooting hand-held.
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dajatje

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 10:02:35 PM »

If I understood the process correctly, with AVCHD you need to copy and then convert the footage into something usable, vs just a capture with HD DV.

If I am not mistaken, adobe premiere cs4 series (and elements 7) will be able to handle AVCHD directly.
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kirky

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 10:12:46 PM »

Worm, can you detail the editing process?  Just out of curiousity...  Sorry if this thread is taking a turn off topic...
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dolbyman

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 10:37:42 PM »

Quote
the HF-11 which is the exact same but goes up to 25mbps which is apparently the limit that h264 can go to for this purpose(and again that's the equivalent of 50mbps on HDV/DVC/etc).

it's all theory .. it all depends on how well the realtime encoders work
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marni1971

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2008, 12:38:25 AM »

If I understood the process correctly, with AVCHD you need to copy and then convert the footage into something usable, vs just a capture with HD DV.

If I am not mistaken, adobe premiere cs4 series (and elements 7) will be able to handle AVCHD directly.
Indeed - I`ve just upgraded to Elements 4, and if I go the AVCHD route will upgrade again to 7 via Adobe - which will accept the format right off the memory card. I`ll burn one DVD with the AVCHD file as a pure backup too (much like I keep my master tapes today).
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darthvader92

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2008, 12:57:23 AM »

I have a the serie of what you got darthvader92... I have a HDR-SR10 and all I say its that that is a great camera when there is high levels of light, but when you use it at night, you will see lots of balck dots in the video. Anyway, its a great option for someone that is using is in good light conditions.
Now Im looking foward that HVR-a1u that its a good one in low light conditions too (but this one costs arround $2600).  :-X :D

So would you say that the problems that I had with the hitachi I will have with the Sony?

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marni1971

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 01:02:31 AM »

I have a the serie of what you got darthvader92... I have a HDR-SR10 and all I say its that that is a great camera when there is high levels of light, but when you use it at night, you will see lots of balck dots in the video. Anyway, its a great option for someone that is using is in good light conditions.
Now Im looking foward that HVR-a1u that its a good one in low light conditions too (but this one costs arround $2600).  :-X :D

So would you say that the problems that I had with the hitachi I will have with the Sony?


Have a look at the tech specs; look for Lux level. You want it to go down to at least 1 with no lighting, night mode or infra red. If it`s above 3 stay away.
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WDITrent

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Re: Comparing HD Cameras
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2008, 01:27:16 AM »

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&productId=8198552921665161560&langId=-1
What would you say about this camcorder? I, as well, am looking for something good for low-light situations. Would something like this do well? Also, I found this, which uses a cassette: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&productId=8198552921665255695&langId=-1
...but it's a little cheaper and has different benefits. So what do you think?
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