Print

[772pilot]

Yeah, you should be careful about the difference between output volume and actual recording level. Having to increase amplitude of audio in a DAW introduces unwanted noise.

[Mara]

I ended up getting the Sony PCM-M10 and have been playing around with it for the last couple of days. Overall, I'm very happy with it, and it's been much easier to understand and learn to operate than I had feared. Thanks, 772pilot and pixelated, for making the recommendation.

Since I don't live in FL and can't visit the parks as often as I'd like, I don't really have as much time as I'd like to experiment with the different options, settings, and techniques to get the best results. I'm hoping you guys will be able to provide some direction on which settings are best to use so I can get better results more efficiently on my next trip.

Here are a few more questions:

1. Do you ever use the low cut filter function? If so, in what situations is it good to utilize?

2. Do you ever use the limiter function? If so, in what situations is it good to utilize?

3. Once a recording is in progress, is it best to leave the recording levels alone (provided they were properly set to begin with), or do I need to make adjustments during the recording?

4. Do you set your mic sensitivity to hi or low? Is one setting generally better for induction recordings? Is one setting generally better for live recordings?

5. I plan on doing induction recordings whenever possible. However, sometimes that may not be an option. If I do a live recording, do I need to invest in a wind screen to cut out wind and other unwanted noises? Also, if I do need to get a wind screen, should I use it for indoor recordings as well?

6. I remember reading a post about which recording resolutions members here use, but I don't remember which thread it was. If I recall, it may have been pixelated that mentioned recording in the highest quality setting is pointless because most of the speakers only play at a certain frequency (I'm sure the terminology is wrong). Which recording resolution do most of you use? One thing that concerns me about recording long loops on the highest quality setting is that the recorder automatically divides the file into two files when it exceeds 2GB. Can this later be joined back together seamlessly using software?

Take a look at the Sony PCM-M10 (my recorder of choice). Excellent pre-amp for boosting those low input levels without introducing too much noise.

I've looked through the manual several times and can't find anything explaining how to boost low input levels with pre-amp. Is this something that's done automatically?

Thanks again for the great advice.

[eyore]

Only one point in there that I feel (reasonably) confident to answer. Adjusting the level while recording.
Do a test recording first if you can. If you adjust while it's recording it's going to show in the playback (portions loud/quiet etc). You set the recording level to the best level you can and, if it's way out, start again. There's a limit to how much you can try and fix something with software. Generally, sound levels are pretty well constant on loops and stuff. By the time you note that the levels are wrong on a live recording, it's usually too late as it's already been recorded. Certainly on my stuff anyway as it takes a few seconds to adjust the level. It is often a case of "fingers crossed".

[772pilot]

Avoid the low-cut filter and limiter functions. The low-cut filter is just an equalizer that rolls away any low frequencies. It's meant to be used for microphone rumble, but since you're doing induction recordings it's not an issue. Limiter functions digitally compress any audio that exceeds the 0db maximum threshold. Makes for a very odd-sounding recording that doesn't have full dynamic range. Avoid this if you can by setting your levels properly.

As for a recording in progress - set your levels once when you're starting and leave them alone. If you change them what you'll end up with is an average change of amplitude in your recording that's nearly impossible to correct in post.

I tend to set my sensitivity to hi, but on the level wheel I never go past 4-5. I still get a good signal and I'm not introducing much preamp noise. I can't say too much about live recording scenarios, but the general rule of thumb is to have your average amplitude at around -12dB.

If you're recording live, a wind screen is a valuable asset to have. Maybe a soft-shell case too to reduce handling noise. Not sure about needing it indoors or not.

I record in 24-bit @ 48kHz. Typical CD quality is 16-bit @ 41kHz. There is almost no discernible difference in sound quality, however, working at a higher sampling rate and bit depth allows me the extra flexibility to work in post without worrying about digital clipping or signal degradation. Most DAWs are destructive editors and any digital signal processing WILL introduce and arbitrary amount of noise.  

The nice thing out the M10 is that you don't need to worry about fiddling with preamp settings - it's already in the signal chain. Just focus on getting appropriate levels for the expected audio, monitor with headphones and you're golden  

[jmercer25]

I'm strongly considering getting into induction recording as well.  Already have my telephone pickup, have experimented just by recording with my iPhone, and thanks to this thread, am considering the Sony PCM-M10.  But now for a somewhat silly question, but one I must ask since I've never tried it. 

How do you attach the pickup to the speaker?

I suppose for recording anywhere but the front, the suction cup would suffice.  But surely the suction cup doesn't stick to the mesh.  I had a few ideas but they all seemed rather...elementary.  I've never taken much time to look at the different speaker types, so I'm not too sure what kind of mesh they use in front.  Thanks in advance!

[PensFan66]

Glue Dots - I use permanent dots, the temp ones don't hold for squat   They perms pull off easy, don't let the name fool you - been using them for years on my induction recordings.

[772pilot]

This man speaks the truth and nothing but the truth.

[eyore]

and for all the stuff you take with you, there's not much you can do if the recorder decides to stop working using the mic in socket and binaural just won't work - along with anything else that plugs onto that socket 

[PensFan66]

and for all the stuff you take with you, there's not much you can do if the recorder decides to stop working using the mic in socket and binaural just won't work - along with anything else that plugs onto that socket 

One of my greatest fears!  Always nervous about that - at least in the parks we rent a car, I can go get a replacement for some items (mic/etc) - but on the Cruise, Im stuck ....  I needed a new Induction Mic once, so in Cozumel we went to what the locals called "The Mexican Walmart" but they didn't have anything like that

[pixelated]

If you bring a netbook or laptop with you on vacation, you can MacGyver it somewhat to work as your digital audio recorder:
How to Optimize Windows 7 Netbook for Audio Recording & Home Studio
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6009.0

[eyore]

and for all the stuff you take with you, there's not much you can do if the recorder decides to stop working using the mic in socket and binaural just won't work - along with anything else that plugs onto that socket 

One of my greatest fears!  Always nervous about that - at least in the parks we rent a car, I can go get a replacement for some items (mic/etc) - but on the Cruise, Im stuck ....  I needed a new Induction Mic once, so in Cozumel we went to what the locals called "The Mexican Walmart" but they didn't have anything like that

Naturally, I found the problem once I got home and gave it some thought. The Zoom generally uses a powered mic, I thinnk. It had reset itself with the menu "plug in" option set to "off" (the Zoom menu is not the easiest - or largest written - thing to delve into away from home (read "blind panic" there). Set it to "on" again and everything working fine  I presume that the battery running out cleared it's memory of things as i noticed it had also rest itself to recording in WAV rather than mp3s). Didn't have the manual with me and, to be honest, couldn't really find anything about unpowered mic in it either! That's the problem with getting old. Something you use once or twice a year means learning it all over again each time. I did take my minidisc recorder "just in case" and, what a surprise, couldn't remember how that worked either. Bah, humbug!

[pixelated]

Naturally, I found the problem once I got home and gave it some thought. The Zoom generally uses a powered mic, I thinnk.

Condenser microphones need power but induction mics don't.  Did the Zoom not work for induction recordings?

[eyore]

yes it did although I only did a few short clips this year. It's a thing about the Zoom I simply forgot.  A powered mic just plugs into the mic socket. An unpowered mic needs to have the power from the Zoom itself via the "plug in" setting turning on in the menu (default is off).  Batteries last a decent time (over three years in my case) so, in that time, I'd forgotten all about it so, when I changed the battery for this year it reset to the defaults. At least the recordings are all in wav.
Do I need to say that I don't have any powered mics.........................

[pixelated]

yes it did although I only did a few short clips this year. It's a thing about the Zoom I simply forgot.  A powered mic just plugs into the mic socket. An unpowered mic needs to have the power from the Zoom itself via the "plug in" setting turning on in the menu (default is off).  Batteries last a decent time (over three years in my case) so, in that time, I'd forgotten all about it so, when I changed the battery for this year it reset to the defaults. At least the recordings are all in wav.
Do I need to say that I don't have any powered mics.........................

Color me confused .  You're saying to use an unpowered mic (like an induction mic) on the Zoom, you have to enable 'plug-in power' on the Zoom?

[eyore]

Correct. There is a "plug in" option in the menu. If you use a standard non-powered mic (like binaural phones or a lapel mic, for instance) this option needs to be "on" or they don't work. The manual is very misleading.
The actual title (but there's not enough room on the screen to display it) is "plug in power".
The manual says:
When you connect a plug in power type external mic to the ext mic in jack of the H2, the H2 can supply power (2.5v DC) to the mic.
It then gives the procedure.

I do know that the Zoom has a phantom power installed.
It's not logical but needs to try and power he mic or they don't work.
Remember, what I know about mics would fit on the back of a postage stamp. They either work or they dont! Plug in off, mics don't work. Plug in on, mics work fine.